{"id":514,"date":"2026-06-14T12:08:57","date_gmt":"2026-06-14T12:08:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/cityrelocationnews.com\/?p=514"},"modified":"2026-06-14T12:08:57","modified_gmt":"2026-06-14T12:08:57","slug":"laverne-cox-wants-to-rehumanize-everybody","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/cityrelocationnews.com\/?p=514","title":{"rendered":"Laverne Cox Wants to \u201cRehumanize Everybody\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Even early on in the actress and model Laverne Cox\u2019s career, she knew that she wanted to balance her professional ambitions with improving the lives of other trans people. Her breakout role, as Sophia Burset on \u201cOrange Is the New Black,\u201d which premi\u00e8red in 2013, led to both greater opportunities and heightened scrutiny. Like the trans pioneer Christine Jorgensen before her, Cox began touring universities (her go-to lecture was titled, naturally, \u201cAin\u2019t I a Woman,\u201d a playful riff on a declaration often attributed to Sojourner Truth) and working the talk-show circuit; her rise to fame was itself treated as a major media event. In 2014, she appeared on the cover of Time<\/em> magazine, becoming the first trans woman to do so. The accompanying article, which proclaimed the arrival of \u201cThe Transgender Tipping Point,\u201d argued that increased visibility had brought about unprecedented acceptance. Twelve years later, it\u2019s impossible not to look back at that more hopeful time with a sense of grim irony.<\/p>\n

Read more Pierre-Emmanuel Lyet\u2019s \u201cAfter the Comeback\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n

At first, it seemed the optimists might be vindicated. In 2017, Cox became the first trans woman to be a series regular on broadcast television, when she played the crusading defense attorney Cameron in the CBS legal drama \u201cDoubt.\u201d She went on to appear in such projects as \u201cDisclosure,\u201d an acclaimed documentary about trans representation onscreen; Shonda Rhimes\u2019s hit Netflix series \u201cInventing Anna\u201d; and \u201cClean Slate,\u201d an Amazon Prime sitcom produced by Norman Lear and inspired by Cox\u2019s own life. She\u2019s won an Emmy and showed up in a Taylor Swift music video. But she has not received the same kinds of Oscar-bait roles as her cis counterparts. Both \u201cDoubt\u201d and \u201cClean Slate\u201d were cancelled after only one season. And even as the offers have dried up amid a growing anti-trans backlash, Cox\u2019s personal life and family history remain tabloid fodder. In her new memoir, \u201cTranscendent,\u201d she reflects on her career thus far and the long-standing effects of her painful childhood on her love life. We discussed her experience coming up as a club kid in nineties New York, her friendship with bell hooks, and her hopes and fears for the trans community today. Our conversation has been edited for length and clarity.<\/p>\n

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I saw you speak many, many years ago when you came to Indiana University. It was right after I\u2019d gone through conversion therapy. So I\u2019m curious about your own experience with that.<\/strong><\/p>\n

You had a conversion-therapy experience! I mean, mine was in 1980. They were therapeutic sessions, and after the third session, they wanted to inject me with testosterone. Luckily, my mother didn\u2019t allow that to happen. Around 1999 or 2000, I was in a support group at the Center here in New York and met a trans woman in a support group who had been pumped with testosterone when she was twelve years old, and it made her transition so much harder.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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So you only went three times?<\/strong><\/p>\n

When they proposed the testosterone injections, my mother thought that was crazy. I was, like, eight, nine years old. She just took me out, thank God. So that was that. But with that whole incident, that was a shift for me, from being free to policing myself and watching and monitoring myself so that I wouldn\u2019t be too femme. I mean, I didn\u2019t do a very good job, but it became a turning point for a new level of self-hatred, a new level of feeling misunderstood; of feeling like a burden to my mother. I always felt like a burden to her. She was working four jobs and trying to make ends meet. I felt horrible. I didn\u2019t want to be a problem to my mother. I just wanted her to love me. I didn\u2019t even realize that fully until I started writing the book. I was talking to my co-writer about the incident and she was asking me questions, and the phrase \u201cI didn’t know how to tell my mother I was a girl\u201d came to me, and I just started crying. I didn\u2019t know how to tell her I was a girl because I knew she wouldn\u2019t believe me.<\/p>\n

It seems like one of the things that got you through that time was your attention to glamour and fashion.<\/strong><\/p>\n

I didn\u2019t start dressing myself till middle school, and it wasn\u2019t glamour. I was living at home, so it wasn\u2019t gender nonconformity. It wasn\u2019t until I got to high school and I was at the Alabama School of Fine Arts and away from my mother that I started wearing girls\u2019 and women\u2019s clothes for the first time. Glamour to me, though, was Iman. I didn\u2019t know who she was on the cover of Jet<\/em> magazine\u2014and this beautiful elegance. Glamour was Scarlett O\u2019Hara. Glamour was Diahann Carroll as Dominique Devereaux on \u201cDynasty.\u201d I was obsessed with Madonna. I had posters of her everywhere. So Madonna began to embody a certain kind of glamour for me. I loved her Old Hollywood references. Janet Jackson was glamour for me.<\/p>\n

My relationship to glamour now is that I get to live these fantasies of being in couture pieces, and I collect vintage. It\u2019s beauty. It\u2019s art. I love a good fashion exhibit. I love fashion history\u2014and, for me, glamour is where fashion meets art. Just getting to do these photo shoots. In red-carpet images, the lighting\u2019s up and really bad, and they don\u2019t get the right angles, but it\u2019s this fantasy.<\/p>\n

Do you have a favorite designer?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Thierry Mugler, of course. In my holy trinity of designers, Mugler is at the top, then John Galliano and Alexander McQueen. Sarah Burton was wonderful when she was at McQueen, but lifetime McQueen, the work he designed himself\u2014those are my tops. I became obsessed with Mugler in 1992, when I saw the \u201cToo Funky\u201d music video. I didn\u2019t know who he was! I remember getting this little book\u2014is it here? Yes. [She pulls out<\/em> \u201cFashion Fetish Fantasy<\/em>.\u201d] I got this little book from Barnes & Noble.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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It was really the cut of the suits and the silhouette. He\u2019s known for this hourglass silhouette, and I think because I\u2019m trans and I have very broad shoulders\u00a0.\u00a0.\u00a0. I mean, he and Montana defined the eighties with these big, broad shoulders with these teeny-tiny waists. That silhouette was achieved because he started working with the legendary corset-maker Mr. Pearl, until 1992. So girl, don\u2019t get me started on Mugler.<\/p>\n

In your book, you\u2019re very open about money and very transparent about the pay you received for \u201cOrange Is the New Black\u201d and \u201cDoubt.\u201d You also recently spoke with Harron Walker in The Cut<\/em>, and you talked a little bit about how the opportunities you used to get for speaking gigs have been declining. Tell me about your decision to be transparent about pay.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Well, at the height of the MeToo movement, a lot of women started talking about pay, and it became clear that we need to talk about money so that we know what other people are making, what we are worth, and what we should be asking for. I think, too, I talk about money because, if I am losing opportunities at the level that I\u2019m at, then what about the working-class trans person who\u2019s not famous and who doesn\u2019t have the following and the platform that I have? I think that is just important to mention. It exposes that a lot of the corporate \u201crainbow capitalism\u201d was conditional. We always knew it was. I don\u2019t think anyone was deluded that these corporations really deeply cared about us. It\u2019s really the system. Their fiduciary responsibility is to their shareholders. That\u2019s the gig.<\/p>\n

What was your time as a club kid like? It\u2019s definitely a part of the book, but I feel like you say \u201cI have so many stories\u201d and move on. Well, tell me some!<\/strong><\/p>\n

There\u2019s so many things that got cut! It was magical. My first restaurant job was at Stingy Lulu\u2019s, which is now a Starbucks on St. Mark\u2019s and Avenue A. I worked there a couple of nights a week. I loved working there Monday nights because Blacklist Performance Cult was performing at Pyramid Club at the time. It was a very underground, very avant-garde performance troupe that was started by Anohni. Her voice has always been pure emotion.<\/p>\n

Limelight, at the time, had several rooms, and there was always a line around the corner to get in. One of the best things is that if you were one of the kids, you didn\u2019t have to wait. I went right up to Kenny, who was the main door person, and he would always let me in. I was also in college, and I didn\u2019t do drugs. I had to study, so I didn\u2019t go out as much as some of the other kids did. But I was out enough that people knew me, and I never had to wait to get into clubs.<\/p>\n

All the kids did runway back then. They would do runway walks, they would vogue, we would dance. And with my ballet training\u2014I started studying [Martha] Graham, and we would join in, and it was fucking fabulous.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s incredible.<\/strong><\/p>\n

I never officially met Michael Alig [the club promoter convicted of killing the club kid Andre (Angel) Menendez, in 1997]. I was in the room with him several times, but I never met him. I did meet Angel. When I first moved to New York, people would always ask me where the drugs were. I\u2019m, like, Why are you asking me? But I think because I was gender-nonconforming, I did not look like a cop. So people just assumed. To be clear, I\u2019ve never done a drug in my life. I don\u2019t judge\u2014people need to do what they need to do. I actually think we need to decriminalize marijuana. But for me, my sperm donor was a drug addict and drug dealer and went to jail for that. But people would always ask me about drugs. I learned that Angel was the guy. So, I would direct people to Angel. I remember being backstage at Queen\u2014there was a little stage\u2014and just chatting with Angel. He was very soft-spoken and sweet. And then you hear about him being murdered. It\u2019s just crazy.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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There was just so much culture that was happening in night clubs at the time, and night clubs were very integrated: straight, gay, trans, everybody sort of partied together. And it wasn\u2019t a party if the kids weren\u2019t there. It was not a hip, cool party unless you had club kids. That was incredible.<\/p>\n

In the early chapters of your book, you talk a lot about your mom and your relationship with your brother, Lamar, who\u2019s also an artist. Have they read the book yet?<\/strong><\/p>\n

My mother has not read it. My brother has not read it, but my brother\u2014I love him so much. He\u2019s so himself. Because we were in the legal process, and they basically wanted him to sign off on how he\u2019s portrayed in the book. He\u2019s, like, \u201cWell, I can\u2019t sign off until I know every mention of me in the book.\u201d So we combed through and found every mention of him in the book, and he went through and approved things and said, \u201cNo, you need to take this out and take this out.\u201d And it was fabulous. Of course, everything he wanted out is out. With my mom, it\u2019s trickier, because I needed to tell the truth. I think when I got a book deal in 2014 or so, I was not ready.<\/p>\n

A lot of the truth about what happened with my mother and what happened with the, what I would call abuse\u2014the sense of feeling unwanted and unlovable\u2014I wasn\u2019t ready. I was not raised to disrespect my mother or speak ill of my mother, and I try not to. I just try to say what happened. There was an earlier version where apparently my mother came across sort of monstrously, and we tried to soften that, but I needed people to understand what my life was like.<\/p>\n

Read more The Knicks Win the N.B.A. Title: A Post-Game Conversation<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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There were years when I was mad at my mother. I\u2019ve forgiven my mother. She\u2019s dealing with complex traumas that have not been processed. I always find it hilarious that, years after I transitioned, my mother revealed that she went to therapy for a few years to deal with my transition. I was, like, girl, my transition is the least of your problems. You should be in therapy for your childhood. You had a horrible daddy! So, I meet her where she is. I understand she did the best she could, and it turned out pretty well.<\/p>\n

Was it hard when you went back to Mobile to film \u201cClean Slate\u201d? So much of that show also seems to reflect some of the themes in the book.<\/strong><\/p>\n

We actually started in Savannah because of tax credits, but the way they designed George\u2019s house felt so much like my mom\u2019s house, and the church where we shot felt so much like Bethel. I was triggered every day during that shoot. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done because it was so personal. I think George Wallace [the actor who plays the father character in \u201cClean Slate\u201d] was really my mother, because I didn\u2019t grow up with a father. He was really my mother, the way my mother treated me. But George did his version of it and made it comedic. But I was so blessed that I got to work with my acting coach every day, because it was so raw. What we do as actors is truthfully acting out imaginary circumstances, so the whole conceit is, What if I didn\u2019t become famous and I moved back to Mobile, Alabama? That would be horrible for me. I would never<\/em> move back to Mobile. There\u2019s no way. And it\u2019s gotten better\u2014I\u2019ve had moments. There was one trip, maybe two years ago, I went back and I wasn\u2019t triggered for the first time. Every time I go back, it\u2019s the ghost of childhood trauma.<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s talk about the trans tipping point.<\/strong><\/p>\n

What do you want to know?<\/p>\n

Well, I guess I\u2019m curious how you conceptualize that moment now, and your role in \u201cOrange Is the New Black,\u201d and the expectations that were put on you during that time.<\/strong><\/p>\n

What I love about just reflecting on it now is how smart we trans people are and how so many trans folks spoke critically of that moment in ways that I didn\u2019t feel disparaged me<\/em> but were critical of the premise of the whole thing. That moment inspired Sam Feder to start the beginnings of \u201cDisclosure.\u201d I didn\u2019t know Sam at the time, but when he saw that moment, he knew, inevitably, that when there\u2019s visibility for a marginalized group, there\u2019s invariably backlash. He saw it coming in 2014.<\/p>\n

For me, there was also a personal piece. It was my first big magazine cover. It was Time<\/em> magazine. It felt prestigious. The announcement happened on my birthday, and it was the day after the magazine came out that I found out I got a Critics\u2019 Choice nomination for my work on the first season of \u201cOrange Is the New Black.\u201d I was the first openly trans person to get a Critics\u2019 Choice nomination. So I planned a party because it was my birthday\u2014and because, when we did the interview, it was a cover try. So, [the magazine told me that] \u201cIf a big event happens, you could be bumped from the cover.\u201d Maya Angelou actually died that week, so I was convinced I was going to be bumped from the cover, but they didn\u2019t bump me.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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In addition to doing my work on \u201cOrange,\u201d I was trying to make as much money as possible\u2014because I was in student-loan debt, I was in rent arrears, I was in credit-card debt, I had no savings, I had no retirement account, all that stuff. So I was trying to make as much money as possible, but I was also trying to change the conversation about trans people in the media. Honestly, I would not have been able to have the career that I have been able to have if we hadn\u2019t changed the conversation, because people weren\u2019t going to be able to see me as a human being. The character of Sophia helped. Having this humanized portrayal of a trans woman, played by a trans woman, helped for sure. The conversations that happened around that weren\u2019t always great. I think the Katie Couric interview was the turning point of my career.<\/p>\n

I didn\u2019t realize until reading your book that there was a second interview with Katie Couric. She famously asked a lot of invasive questions about surgery and your body parts during her first on-air chat with you and Carmen Carrera, in 2014, but then she brought you back on. That\u2019s a really powerful moment that\u2019s hard to imagine happening now.<\/strong><\/p>\n

A testament to Katie Couric and her commitment to not being right but getting it right. She\u2019s now become this fierce advocate for our community.<\/p>\n

Do you feel hopeful now?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Hope isn\u2019t the word. I feel that this is a moment where we have to make some really important decisions about who we are, who we want to be, and how we\u2019re going to proceed. I\u2019ve been saying when history looks back at me, I want to be a Christian Dior, not a Coco Chanel. It\u2019s that serious. We\u2019re in a fascist moment with this crazy President who wants to be a dictator, who\u2019s just thrown every law out the window. In Nazi Germany, trans people were some of the first people who were attacked, and history is repeating. Books haven\u2019t been burned, but every year has been getting worse on the state level, and we have the federal government ramping up with executive orders. It\u2019s nuts, and they just keep finding new things to do to disenfranchise trans people in order to delegitimize our identities. It\u2019s not even about hope. We have to take action right now. We have to have the courage to tell the truth. And that\u2019s part of what my job is. I think rhetorically we need to rehumanize trans people and rehumanize everybody.<\/p>\n

Do you think that their goal in dehumanization is eradication?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, absolutely. I mean, their prisoners are being detransitioned in prison, right? This is a project that they want. They\u2019ve introduced a bill banning gender-affirming care nationally. I believe that is the goal. I absolutely believe that it\u2019s a goal that they want to detransition all of us or put us in camps and force us to be detransitioned.<\/p>\n

On a different note, I am a huge bell hooks fan, and I remember that you quoted her during your talk at I.U. in 2014. Of course, you also had this fascinating, intense, and very public conversation at CUNY<\/em>. The two of you became friends, and you sort of talk about her as a surrogate mother. What have you taken away from her legacy?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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Her courage. Her courage to speak the truth, even when it was difficult\u2014the courage of her convictions. There\u2019s a beautiful talk called \u201cBreaking Bread,\u201d which is taken from a talk between her and Cornell West from the mid-nineties. It was right after the Million Man March, and she had lots of problems with the Million Man March. She starts off the conversation saying, \u201cI haven\u2019t seen you in a while, Cornell, and I love you. And I don\u2019t want to start saying, \u2018I disagree with you,\u2019 but I disagree with you on this.\u201d Even the day I interviewed Cornell West for my podcast, I called bell the morning of the interview and I said, \u201cI\u2019m interviewing Cornell today. Do you want me to ask him anything or say anything to him?\u201d [Laughs<\/em>.] I love this woman. This woman is about that life. She said, \u201cI still think he hasn\u2019t fully grappled with patriarchy and his internalized patriarchy.\u201d So I asked him about that.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s on Spotify. I tell him what she said\u2014but she also said, \u201cI love him even though he doesn\u2019t love me.\u201d They\u2019re very playful with each other. So I told Brother West all that and he danced around. I love him. That Presidential run was embarrassing, and he tarnished his legacy with that mess.<\/p>\n

For me, hooks\u2019s legacy is that relentless pursuit of liberation justice. She\u2019s deeply interested in our wellness as Black people, deeply invested in us being psychologically, emotionally well. She writes brilliantly about the psychological and emotional effects of white supremacy and what she would call imperialist, white supremacist, capitalist patriarchy. I take with me the depth of the scholarship. I think her concept of the oppositional gaze and Black female spectatorship that she writes about in \u201cBlack Looks,\u201d which was the first bell hooks book I read, remains prescient. It remains a crucial addition to film criticism, particularly feminist film criticism. What was the first book you read, do you remember?<\/p>\n

The first two I read were \u201cTeaching to Transgress\u201d<\/em> and \u201cReel to Real.\u201d The latter book has something that I cite almost daily, which is her essay on Quentin Tarantino, where she says cynicism is not liberatory.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Just the analysis, the scholarship. She read a book a day. This woman was serious. She was just brilliant. I love my mother, but my mother still doesn\u2019t fully see me and she doesn\u2019t have the capacity to\u2014and that\u2019s O.K. I love her anyway. But bell hooks saw me. Even before I met her, I felt her words. When I read \u201cBlack Looks,\u201d my molecules shifted.<\/p>\n

You have a whole chapter on a man you call Giuseppe, a conservative cop you dated for four years. I know there was a lot of conversation online after you revealed that relationship. How was writing that chapter and being so vulnerable about him?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I did a solo show last year, and I mentioned the relationship in a very tone-deaf way randomly on an Instagram Live, and the backlash was swift and brutal from all corners of the internet. I lost followers. Some people still don\u2019t fuck with me because I dated Giuseppe, and that\u2019s fine. But where I\u2019m at now with that, with the fans who felt betrayed, who felt I\u2019m not who I say I am\u00a0.\u00a0.\u00a0. I\u2019m not Nikki Minaj. I didn\u2019t vote for that motherfucker, ever. Yes, my ex is a triple Trumper. I voted for Kamala. I have never advocated for any Republican policy. I think sometimes people think that if you date someone who has different political beliefs, then you adopt those political beliefs. They don\u2019t know me. Maybe some women do. I wonder, if I were a man, if it would be the same because I dated someone. If I were a leftist man dating a Republican woman, would people assume that I had the same beliefs of my partner?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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I mean, the way I justified the cop thing to myself, I was, like, we all work for corrupt institutions. We live in capitalism. We all have to navigate corrupt institutions. The police are a corrupt institution. I\u2019ve worked for several multinational corporations. But my editor was, like, \u201cPeople aren\u2019t going to really get that.\u201d So we took that out of the book. That\u2019s part of how I was rationalizing it [when we were dating]. I was, like, \u201cYou can be in an institution but not of it.\u201d Then I realized that you cannot be a cop and not be of<\/em> an institution. I had to love myself more than I loved him. And I do. I didn\u2019t betray myself, and that\u2019s progress.\u00a0\u2666<\/p>\n

Read more Why Todd Blanche Should Not Be Attorney General<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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