{"id":89,"date":"2026-05-20T13:39:41","date_gmt":"2026-05-20T13:39:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/cityrelocationnews.com\/?p=89"},"modified":"2026-05-20T13:39:41","modified_gmt":"2026-05-20T13:39:41","slug":"peter-magyar-led-hungarians-out-of-autocracy-where-will-he-take-them-now","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/cityrelocationnews.com\/?p=89","title":{"rendered":"P\u00e9ter Magyar Led Hungarians out of Autocracy. Where Will He Take Them Now?"},"content":{"rendered":"
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The theme of this year\u2019s Riviera International Film Festival, which is taking place on the Ligurian coast of Northern Italy, is \u201cNo risks, no stories.\u201d The festival opened on Tuesday night with the international premi\u00e8re of a documentary called \u201cSpring Wind,\u201d which was squarely on theme: the high-risk, high-reward tale of P\u00e9ter Magyar\u2019s audacious quest to unseat Viktor Orb\u00e1n as Prime Minister of Hungary. (One of the documentary\u2019s producers described its \u201cdramatic arc\u201d as \u201ca classic hero\u2019s journey.\u201d) Last month, despite Orb\u00e1n\u2019s formidable, long-standing attempts to rig the legal and electoral systems in his favor, Magyar won, in a stunning upset. On May 9th, in a ceremony on the bank of the Danube River, he will be sworn in as Prime Minister.<\/p>\n

Read more Biking Outside the Lines in New York City<\/a><\/p>\n

Revealing this is no spoiler, because \u201cSpring Wind\u201d ends before election day. Magyar granted the filmmakers, a husband-and-wife team named Tam\u00e1s Yvan Topol\u00e1nszky and Claudia S\u00fcmeghy, extensive access to his campaign. They shot for a year, in secret, accompanying Magyar as he rehearsed his speeches, berated his staff, walked to Transylvania, and held countless rallies before small crowds in the countryside. Then, a week before the election, they released the movie, temporarily, on YouTube. It quickly set viewership records. Some 3.3 million people watched it online\u2014a number roughly equivalent to a third of Hungary\u2019s population (and also, the filmmakers hasten to point out, strikingly close to the number of votes Magyar ended up getting).<\/p>\n

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A lot of the coverage of Magyar\u2019s election, including my own, treated his victory as a hopeful harbinger, not only for Hungary but for the world. People were watching especially closely in countries, including my own, whose status as consolidated liberal democracies has been downgraded, in recent years, from \u201cdefinitely\u201d to \u201cprobably\u201d to \u201cit\u2019s complicated.\u201d There are many ways for a country to become unfree. There\u2019s the classic military coup, the theocratic revolution, the swiftly adopted emergency decree. But these methods are blatant and outmoded, often more trouble than they\u2019re worth, even for an aspiring tyrant who isn\u2019t moved by human suffering. The cleaner, more contemporary path to autocracy has come to be known as competitive authoritarianism, and it was this method, as Jan-Werner M\u00fcller recently wrote<\/em> in the London Review of Books<\/em>, which \u201cOrb\u00e1n\u2019s self-declared \u2018illiberal\u2019 regime had pioneered.\u201d Orb\u00e1n\u2019s party won a super-majority in 2010, and for sixteen years he kept pressing his advantage, using the tools of the state to \u201cstaff the state bureaucracy and courts with loyalists, help wealthy allies acquire media companies and subjugate schools and universities.\u201d As M\u00fcller notes later in his essay, \u201cIt\u2019s hard not to think of parallels with the Trump regime.\u201d<\/p>\n

Of course, there are also clear differences. When Orb\u00e1n lost, he didn\u2019t put up a fight. Relatively early on election night, before all the votes were counted, he called Magyar to concede. (Some pundits argued, unconvincingly<\/em>, that this proved that Orb\u00e1n had been a democrat all along.) If Trumpism is modelled on Orb\u00e1nism, at least in part, then anti-Trump Americans found particular promise in Orb\u00e1n\u2019s defeat, with its implication that a democratic turn could come to the U.S. next. There was an equal and opposite reaction from far-right Americans and Europeans, some of whom had flocked to Budapest in recent years, treating it as an illiberal city on a hill, and a source of government largesse. When I spoke with Rod Dreher, a right-wing writer from Louisiana, in 2022, he told me that he was about to move to Budapest. He has lived there for the past four years, working for a state-funded think tank. Last month, as Magyar was leading in most polls, Dreher wrote on Substack that he was \u201cstrongly considering moving to Vienna.\u201d (He recently told The New Yorker<\/em> that he has decided to return to the U.S., instead.)<\/p>\n

Magyar began his career as a cog in the Orb\u00e1nist machine. He represented the Hungarian government as a diplomat in Brussels during the Orb\u00e1n administration, and enjoyed access to the inner circle of Fidesz, Orb\u00e1n\u2019s party. This access came mostly through Magyar\u2019s wife, Judit Varga, who far outranked him, and who eventually became Orb\u00e1n\u2019s Minister of Justice. In early 2024, a journalist reported that, after children were abused in a state-run facility, people within Fidesz had quietly pardoned an accomplice. The scandal seemed to implicate large swaths of the regime, but only two Fidesz politicians\u2014two of the Party\u2019s most prominent women\u2014suffered any immediate consequences. One of them was Varga, who resigned from parliament in disgrace. By then, she and Magyar had divorced, but Magyar claimed to be defending her honor when he wrote a screed on Facebook expressing his outrage at powerful men who resort to \u201chiding behind women\u2019s skirts,\u201d and also, by extension, at the entire system, which had become \u201cnothing more than a political product, a layer of icing that serves two purposes: covering up the workings of the power apparatus, and acquiring immense wealth.\u201d Magyar posted it impulsively, he later said, then retreated to his back yard in a panic. Publishing such a tirade, as everyone knew, was tantamount to political self-destruction. He rushed back inside, intending to delete it, but it had already started spreading. The following night, he gave a long interview to one of the few independent news outlets left in Hungary, repeating his complaints against the regime. This was a staggering spectacle\u2014an insider, with receipts, confirming some of the country\u2019s biggest open secrets in plain language\u2014and it sparked a movement. Magyar commandeered a political party called Tisza. The Orb\u00e1nists first ignored them, then smeared them. Nonetheless, the party\u2019s popularity grew. Along the way, it acquired a staff, an ideology, and a political strategy.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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After Magyar became an opposition candidate, the Orb\u00e1n loyalists in the Fidesz-aligned media were characteristically aggressive, spreading lies about Magyar\u2019s political views and his personal life without giving him any airtime to defend himself. The day after the election, the ban apparently lifted, and he appeared in the main state-controlled TV studio for an interview, which quickly turned combative. \u201cWhat you did here,\u201d he told the host, live on air, would have impressed \u201ceven Goebbels, or the North Korean dictator,\u201d adding, \u201cThis factory of lies will shut down.\u201d (In the archetypal hero\u2019s journey, this is known as the victory lap.) When he left the studio and stepped into the hallway, some of the network\u2019s employees greeted him with applause<\/em>. Magyar recently claimed that several of Orb\u00e1n\u2019s top lieutenants are rushing to send their assets abroad, perhaps to avoid financial or legal sanctions, and that others have been shredding incriminating documents. The Guardian<\/em> reported that \u201chigh-level figures close to Orb\u00e1n have been looking into US visa options.\u201d According to some Hungarian oligarchs, their bank accounts have already been frozen; one Fidesz-aligned media executive recently appeared on camera, in tears, offering his companies<\/em>, gratis, to the incoming government. So far, Magyar does not appear to be interested.<\/p>\n

The state-controlled media\u2019s coverage of Magyar may have been unfair, though it is true that he has a messy personal life. He and Varga have three sons, and they continue to share custody, but their divorce was acrimonious. When Magyar emerged as an opposition figure, their disputes became a recurring story in the tabloids. He released audio, which he had recorded in secret, of her speaking unguardedly over a glass of wine in their living room, about the perfidy of the Orb\u00e1n regime. She accused him, separately, of domestic abuse. Magyar began dating other people. Orb\u00e1n has been known to spy on his enemies, and, during the campaign, it was rumored that someone close to Orb\u00e1n had acquired a sex tape of Magyar and an ex-girlfriend, and was preparing to release it. Magyar took this rumor seriously enough to pre\u00ebmptively record a speech about the sex tape, to curb the damage. (The tape, if it existed, was never released.) On the eve of the election, Varga, who had been quiet for months, wrote a Facebook post that appeared to be a tacit endorsement of Orb\u00e1n.<\/p>\n

\u201cSpring Wind\u201d recounts most of this. It\u2019s not a lacerating piece of journalism; Topol\u00e1nszky and S\u00fcmeghy make no secret of their fondness for their main subject, with whom they are on a first-name basis. \u201cIf you must call it propaganda, call it the propaganda of hope,\u201d Topol\u00e1nszky told me. Still, the two insisted that they had not ceded editorial control to Magyar, or to anyone else, and the film contains enough moments of tension to keep it from lapsing fully into authorized-biography territory. On camera, Magyar is asked about Varga\u2019s allegations of abuse, and he emphatically denies them. Several talking heads mention Magyar\u2019s temper. \u201cWhat kind of person are you?\u201d one of the filmmakers asks him, from out of frame. \u201cDifficult,\u201d he replies.<\/p>\n

Given those hints of friction, it was a bit incongruous, before the film\u2019s premi\u00e8re in the Italian Riviera, to see four people walking the red carpet together: Topol\u00e1nszky and S\u00fcmeghy, both wearing custom tuxedos, followed by Magyar and the youngest of his three sons, Mikl\u00f3s, who is a preteen. Magyar stopped to take selfies with some admirers who had flown in from Budapest. Then, inside the cinema, the four were seated together in the front row. (Mikl\u00f3s\u2019s corn-yellow coif, which resembles his father\u2019s, barely poked above the headrest.) During an onstage Q.\u00a0&\u00a0A., Magyar attempted to explain why life under Orb\u00e1n had been so oppressive, even though dissidents were not beaten or jailed. When speaking Hungarian, he invariably refers to the Orb\u00e1n administration using the word rendszer<\/em>\u2014a broader and harsher word than \u201cgovernment,\u201d closer to \u201csystem\u201d or \u201cregime.\u201d In Italy, adapting to his audience, he used the word \u201cmafia.\u201d His election victory was herculean, but he acknowledged that, in his hero\u2019s journey, it was merely the end of the first act. As he put it, \u201cThe dance has just begun.\u201d<\/p>\n

As far as I could tell, I was the only American journalist at the premi\u00e8re. Days earlier, before booking my flight, I had made it clear to S\u00fcmeghy that, as interested as I was in her filmmaking process, my priority was an interview with her main subject, the incoming Prime Minister. What ensued was a negotiation\u2014or a dance, to use Magyar\u2019s gentler euphemism\u2014over whether I would be able to talk to him, and if so for how long, and what I would be allowed to ask. An intermediary from the documentary\u2019s production company told me that any conversation with \u201cP\u00e9ter\u201d would have to be a joint interview with S\u00fcmeghy and Topol\u00e1nszky, as part of the film\u2019s promotional rollout. I was urged to ask only about the movie, and to avoid political questions. I pushed back (sorry, danced back): seeing as the movie was about such things as politics and democracy, I argued, these topics should not be off limits. I couldn\u2019t tell whether Magyar was doing a favor for S\u00fcmeghy and Topol\u00e1nszky, using his star power to entice journalists into covering their movie, or whether they were doing a favor for Magyar, running interference so that he wouldn\u2019t face tough questions, or whether this was all some sort of misunderstanding. On the night of the premi\u00e8re, with my forty-five-minute interview scheduled for the following morning, the negotiation remained unresolved.<\/p>\n

During Magyar\u2019s campaign, one of his great assets was his message discipline. Once he reached a certain level of viability, he didn\u2019t do many interviews with journalists; he preferred to speak for himself, on his Facebook page. (He did grant some access to established independent outlets, and also to a new outlet called Kontroll<\/em>, which is owned by his brother.) When the Orb\u00e1n administration tried to ban the Pride Parade in Budapest last year, hundreds of thousands of people showed up anyway, and it became something of a resistance rally. Yet Magyar avoided the march, defending \u201cthe people\u2019s right to assemble\u201d in broad terms while sidestepping the issue of queer rights, which are polarizing in Hungary. He promised to repair Hungary\u2019s ties to the European Union, which had grown severely strained under Orb\u00e1n, and to bring the country into compliance with various E.U. mandates, thus recovering billions of dollars in E.U. funds. But he also vowed to preserve Orb\u00e1n\u2019s hard-line immigration policies, which were popular domestically, including maintaining a wall that Orb\u00e1n had built on Hungary\u2019s southern border.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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Magyar stitched together an exceptionally diverse coalition, and he kept it from fraying by focussing on what his supporters had in common\u2014mostly, their opposition to Orb\u00e1n\u2019s corruption and abuse of power\u2014while trying to avoid topics that could divide them. But now Magyar will have to govern, and any substantive decision that he makes will surely alienate some part of his base. Still, even after the election, Magyar has remained relentlessly on message\u2014which is to say, vague and tight-lipped, leaving several inconvenient dilemmas unaddressed. Other than his feisty appearance on state TV, a long press conference the day after election day, and frequent optimistic updates on social media, he has been somewhat elusive, granting little access to the press and no major interviews to foreign outlets.<\/p>\n

\u201cWe\u2019ll suspend this deceitful news service,\u201d Magyar told a state-TV anchor, during his appearance there. \u201cWe\u2019ll create an independent, objective, and neutral public media.\u201d But how does one go about that, exactly? Tisza\u2019s party platform, more than two hundred pages long, promises a \u201cpeaceful regime change,\u201d and lays out a bullet-pointed plan to \u201celiminate political influence in state institutions,\u201d \u201crecover stolen public assets,\u201d and \u201crestore the rule of law.\u201d (When asked how he will accomplish all this, he has said, \u201cWe will not break the rule of law to restore the rule of law.\u201d) This all sounds terrific, but the devil is in the dance. Many Tisza supporters hope that they will soon see the various rogues of the outgoing regime hauled off to jail\u2014hopes that were, at times, stoked by Magyar\u2019s campaign rhetoric. But such criminal convictions may take a long time, if they happen at all. And then there\u2019s the separate question of whether they are a good idea.<\/p>\n

In Hungary\u2019s intensely gerrymandered system\u2014originally designed to ensconce Orb\u00e1n\u2019s power, eventually a factor in his undoing\u2014the plurality of votes that went to Magyar\u2019s party will give it more than two-thirds of the seats in parliament. With this super-majority, it will soon be able to rewrite the constitution at will. \u201cI didn\u2019t hide my intentions,\u201d Magyar said, during his post-election press conference. \u201cHungarians want a regime change.\u201d This is true: if ever a candidate has come to office with a mandate for root-and-branch reform, it is Magyar. And yet, the more I heard him repeat such promises (or threats), the more they gnawed at me. At the premi\u00e8re, watching \u201cSpring Wind\u201d for a second time, I remembered, with a twinge of unease, where I\u2019d heard the same sentiment before. Throughout the film\u2014throughout his campaign\u2014Magyar vowed that 2026 would be a pivotal year in Hungarian history, in line with 1956, when Hungarians rose up against their Soviet occupiers, and with 1989, when pro-democracy protesters (including a young Viktor Orb\u00e1n) led the transition to full independence. But there was another important year that Magyar talked about less often: 2010, when Orb\u00e1n\u2019s party took power with a two-thirds super-majority, then set about rewriting the constitution. \u201cHungarians want deep-seated and fundamental change in every area of life,\u201d Orb\u00e1n wrote at the time. \u201cThey have authorized us\u00a0.\u00a0.\u00a0. to establish a new political, economic, and social system.\u201d<\/p>\n

Magyar has sworn repeatedly that his intentions are purer than Orb\u00e1n\u2019s, and that he has built a coalition that will hold him accountable. When his party overhauls the political system, he promises, it will do so judiciously, with ample democratic input, and only for the good of the people. It\u2019s entirely possible, even probable, that he is being sincere. And yet, of course, this is what they all say. In person, Magyar gives every indication of being magnanimous and down-to-earth, smiling easily, thanking everyone profusely, and treating his son with what looks like authentic affection, even when the cameras aren\u2019t rolling. But, as with any politician, it\u2019s possible that his lawful-good pose is just that\u2014or that he\u2019s only a good guy for now, because he hasn\u2019t yet been exposed to the corrupting allure of real power. (Magyar has already made at least one worrisome move\u2014nominating his brother-in-law to be his justice minister\u2014but recently, after considerable public pushback, the brother-in-law turned down the nomination.) During the most classic hero\u2019s journey of them all, Odysseus prepares assiduously for his encounter with the Sirens, tying himself to the mast long before he can be tempted. Magyar\u2014sitting in the front row, rewatching a film that had helped establish him as a global icon of anti-authoritarian resistance\u2014was less than four days away from taking power. Was he prepared?<\/p>\n

The morning after the premi\u00e8re, Magyar and the two filmmakers gave a press conference to about two dozen Italian reporters. The venue was a casually magnificent stone building, constructed in the fifteenth century as a Dominican convent, on a promontory overlooking a sparkling bay. The surroundings seemed to impress no one except me. The Italians, mostly culture reporters, asked their questions about the film; the three Hungarians listened to a live translation via headsets, then gave their responses in English. I tried to pay attention while craning my neck to look up at the vaulted ceiling. (After years of frigid early-morning campaign junkets in Flint and rural New Hampshire, chasing a politician through an idyllic Mediterranean village was a welcome change; I will always give Magyar credit for this much, at least, even if he fails to revive democracy in Central Europe.) One of the Italian journalists started to sneak in a news-related question about Giorgia Meloni, the Prime Minister of Italy, with whom Magyar was about to meet, in Rome. Before the journalist could finish her question, though, Topol\u00e1nszky cut in: \u201cWe are at a film festival, and this is not about the film. Next question.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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After the press conference, Magyar and the filmmakers were scheduled to sit with some Italian journalists for a series of five-minute interviews. They would be ready for me, a staffer told me, in about an hour. I went back to my hotel room to wait, but, as soon as I got there, I received a text containing one word: \u201cNow.\u201d Midway through the interviews, Magyar had abruptly cancelled the rest and returned to his hotel, one far more luxurious than mine, on an imposing hilltop on the other side of town. He was still willing to participate in my interview, I was told, provided I could get to his hotel right away. I speed-walked across town, trying to recast my questions about democratic renewal in the guise of film criticism.<\/p>\n

I was escorted up to the hotel\u2019s Ristorante Olimpo, where picture windows framed panoramic views of the bay, and seated at an empty table with four chairs. The only other people in the restaurant were two of Magyar\u2019s aides and Mikl\u00f3s, his son, who sat at a nearby table eating burrata. After a while, the filmmakers joined me; a few minutes later, Magyar arrived, looking tired. \u201cI\u2019ll get through as much as I can in forty-five minutes,\u201d I assured him. Magyar shook his head. \u201cFor me, it\u2019s just three questions,\u201d he said. \u201cAnd as little about politics as possible.\u201d<\/p>\n

As it happened, Magyar answered more than three of my questions. Our awkward dance continued until the very end\u2014me asking Magyar what he planned to do as Prime Minister, the documentarians interjecting with digressions about their film shoot\u2014but what came out of it was P\u00e9ter Magyar\u2019s first substantial interview with a foreign journalist since being elected. He was cordial but cautious, and at times evasive\u2014a big-tent politician who has come this far by hewing to his talking points\u2014and he seemed to vacillate between an inclination to communicate directly and an instinct toward self-protection. We discussed the incipient Hungarian constitution, whether his victory represented a vindication for the center-right or the populist left, and his upcoming struggle\u2014the still-unwritten second act of his dramatic arc\u2014to lead his nation out of an extended period of competitive authoritarianism, into something more uncertain. Our interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.<\/p>\n

Americans or Europeans who haven\u2019t spent time in Hungary might be confused about how the system works\u2014or worked, I guess, for sixteen years, until now. After your election, we even heard the argument: Orb\u00e1n conceded right away, so this was never authoritarianism in the first place; he was a democrat all along. How do you explain this system to people who haven\u2019t experienced it?<\/strong><\/p>\n

There was a clear risk during these two years [of the campaign]. To be honest, this risk goes also to nurses, policemen, teachers, doctors, public servants. Many of them have lost their jobs because they joined our movement, or supported our movement, or joined as a volunteer, or just joined the protests somewhere in the countryside.<\/p>\n

Of course, I always said that there is an ultimate solution\u2014to defeat [Fidesz] with an election. But to achieve this, to be able to defeat them, is not as easy as it is everywhere in Europe. This was not a government but, rather, a power machine, helped by the propaganda machine, the secret services, all the authorities used and led by Orb\u00e1n puppets, like the President, the constitutional court, the public prosecutors, the media authority, and maybe the financing of the film industry, as well.<\/p>\n

Many of the old opposition parties said that it is not possible to defeat them with an election. I was always confident that it\u2019s possible. But it\u2019s not easy at all. You have to risk many, many things\u2014your personal life, your public life, your job, your dreams.<\/p>\n

But we are finally here.<\/p>\n

In your party platform, it says, \u201cWe are preparing for a peaceful regime change.\u201d And that\u2019s about to happen\u2014or start, anyway\u2014this weekend. So this raises the obvious question: how do you change these things? The manipulation, the abuse of institutional power, the self-censorship across the media\u2014everything that the whole Orb\u00e1n system has been built on over the past sixteen years. I mean, it\u2019s not just going to change overnight, right? So how do you reform the system? How quickly can it happen? What are the expectations, and can those expectations be met right away?<\/strong><\/p>\n

We reached the election victory step by step, brick by brick\u2014going around the country, visiting seven hundred cities and villages to meet personally with the people. And today, for the time being, the regime has collapsed totally. According to the latest [approval] poll, we have seventy per cent, and Fidesz has twenty-three per cent. So it collapsed\u2014because the propaganda machine has collapsed, and more and more people are able to see the truth. Maybe it takes weeks, or days, to realize that they were not right or that they received lies about us. But I think it\u2019s a very speedy process now. The oligarchs, the members of the regime, are now fleeing, trying to escape with their money to Asia or to South America.<\/p>\n

Or to the U.S.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Maybe the U.S., as well. But I think now [Hungary] is a free country. The authorities are starting to work. The police, as well. The public prosecutor\u2019s office, as well. I think this is the end of the regime, that\u2019s for sure.<\/p>\n

After you went on public TV and had that confrontation live on air, you left the set, you went into the hallway, and there were people applauding\u2014employees of the network who were apparently not supportive of everything that station had become. So this shows how complex the situation is, because you can\u2019t just fire everyone\u2014<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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No, there is no intention to fire everyone.<\/p>\n

So how will you do it?<\/strong><\/p>\n

It\u2019s easy. Who were the political nominees? And who did any unjust, illegal things?<\/p>\n

Read more Chaya Czernowin Gives Voice to a Wounded World<\/a><\/p>\n

We have to scrutinize, we have to pay attention, we have to have a close look. It will not happen in one day. But we don\u2019t want to fire anybody who was part [of the regime] as a civil servant, or a doctor, or a policeman. These are good guys. Our task is to rebuild and to strengthen the rule of law, the checks and balances. And to change, of course, the puppets of Orb\u00e1n: the President of the country, the president of the prosecutor\u2019s office, the constitutional court, the media authority. But not the average, normal citizen workers. That\u2019s not our intention at all.<\/p>\n

Last night, at the premi\u00e8re, you said, \u201cThe dance is just beginning\u201d\u2014meaning, basically, that you\u2019ve just pulled off this very difficult upset election victory, and now comes the even harder part, which is actually governing, holding your coalition together, delivering on your promises. You have supporters on the left, supporters on the right, supporters in the middle. And there will inevitably be some conflict, and some disappointment, among your supporters. How will you manage that?<\/strong><\/p>\n

You\u2019re right\u2014now there is a honeymoon feeling in the country, and the honeymoon could go away very, very quickly.<\/p>\n

I think you\u2019ll get longer than most people get.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, but it\u2019s our responsibility and task to get it longer, and to explain to the people the real situation, the exact situation of the country, of the economy, of the health-care system, the education system. It\u2019s our huge responsibility to bring back the E.U. funds, to strengthen the checks and balances, to rebuild, to reunite the country, and to be very honest that we won\u2019t be perfect\u2014we are just human beings\u2014and if we make any mistakes, to be honest and admit it, [and accept] the consequences. That will also be a huge difference from the Orb\u00e1n regime, when there was no responsibility or consequences of any crime, any political mistake.<\/p>\n

I think if you treat the people like adults, it\u2019s not easy, but everything can be explained. And the more difficult decisions, the more sensitive decisions\u2014we\u2019ll see how long this honeymoon feeling will last, and, of course, I\u2019m prepared for the change, for the [approval] numbers lowering. It\u2019s quite normal. But, if you are honest, you will survive the more difficult times as well, I\u2019m sure.<\/p>\n

We will start with modifying the constitution, and we\u2019ll write in the constitution that anybody can be a Prime Minister in Hungary only for two terms\u2014maximum eight years. It will be a sign that we don\u2019t want to do the same\u2014to build a power machine\u2014but just to govern, just to serve the country as long as possible. But maximum eight years.<\/p>\n

So you can guarantee that you will be there only eight years?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yeah, absolutely. Or four, we\u2019ll see. But in the constitution it will be written that eight years is the maximum.<\/p>\n

What are some other things that will be in the constitution that will check your power, limit your power? And is that new constitution being written right now?<\/strong><\/p>\n

[At this point, S\u00fcmeghy jumped in. \u201cTo avoid the point of the constitution at this table,\u201d she began, steering the conversation toward a more general topic. Under Orb\u00e1n, she said, Hungarians had \u201cexperienced lack of trust in our institutions\u2014we were infantilized.\u201d But Magyar, she felt, was starting to change this mentality, by treating his supporters as grownups.<\/em>]<\/p>\n

Well, if I can just treat all of us like grownups: I\u2019m not trying to sneak in news-related questions, but I really think that it\u2019s important to discuss what happens next. Everyone in the world is curious. The whole film, the whole campaign, was based on the premise that there were these key inflection-point years in Hungarian history: 1956, 1989, 2010, and now 2026. And so this moment you\u2019re about to embark on\u2014what you have repeatedly called a peaceful regime change\u2014it raises some big and maybe difficult questions. Because this message\u2014that we have won this big mandate for change, and we will rewrite the constitution\u2014that was also Orb\u00e1n\u2019s message, after 2010, and now of course we look back on that as a disaster.<\/strong><\/p>\n

So the big question in my mind is: how do we know that this is not a moment like that, where the voters are handing you power and you will use it to lock in your own power? How can people really be sure that there won\u2019t be an abuse of power, a betrayal?<\/strong><\/p>\n

[Smiling.<\/em>] I really respect your try to reformulate the question. And I really understand that you would like to know the details. But the difference between us and the Orb\u00e1n regime, one of the differences, is that it\u2019s not P\u00e9ter Magyar who will make decisions alone. So you are asking a question which will be decided by the Hungarian parliament, discussed with the Hungarian society\u2014the professionals, the lawyers, and the political groups in the Hungarian parliament. So there is nothing to be decided at this time. So I\u2019m not able to answer your question.<\/p>\n

[To be a responsible leader] I think, everything starts in your mind, in your brain. It\u2019s you who should control yourself. It\u2019s not up to the constitutions, to be honest.<\/p>\n

You mentioned that everything went wrong [after 2010] because of the constitution. No, it\u2019s an average constitution. It\u2019s because of the power, because of the Prime Minister, because of the mafia. It\u2019s not because of the laws. I\u2019m a lawyer\u2014I\u2019m ready to modify the constitution or the electoral law. But it\u2019s up to the people, up to the political persons in power. You have to control yourself in your mind first. And to build a community that will control you as a Prime Minister, as a [leader] of the Party.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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I have a sixty-three-point list on the wall of my office, written by colleagues, [about] how to control yourself. If you break these points, two or three of these points, then it\u2019s time to reconsider whether you are still able to serve the country or not to rule the country.<\/p>\n

Of course, it\u2019s very important to rebuild, to strengthen the checks and balances, but at the end of the day everything depends on the people, on the political players. And I would be more than happy to transfer this power to anybody else who is better than me, who is able to serve the country, and go back to my kids and visit their football matches.<\/p>\n

I know that everything is very personalized in politics nowadays. I think the difference between Prime Minister Orb\u00e1n and myself, as well as the political players in the Tisza party and in Fidesz\u2014what is your commitment? Why are you there? To become the richest person in Europe, or in Hungary? Or to serve the country and help the education system, the health-care system, the filmmakers\u2014to solve problems?<\/p>\n

That\u2019s our intention. If I will feel in any way that it\u2019s not my intention anymore, I will step down immediately.<\/p>\n

How will you know if things have gone off the rails? And how will your voters know? Obviously, power corrupts. In 2010, when Orb\u00e1n was elected with a large majority, people were excited for the change of regime. At some point, they knew it was going in the wrong direction, but they found out too late. So how will people know this time?<\/strong><\/p>\n

No, it\u2019s really not possible, because our political party and movement is totally different compared to Fidesz. We have socialist-background people, right-wing people, radical greens, liberals. It\u2019s a very heterogeneous group.<\/p>\n

We have so many feedbacks. We have the Tisza Islands, thousands of Tisza Islands\u2014our civic organizations. We have direct contact with the people through these groups. And we don\u2019t have the oligarchs\u2014we don\u2019t have any economic power behind us. So it\u2019s just not possible to\u2014there is no intention [to do this] at all, but it\u2019s just not possible to build the same system without propaganda, without a homogenous political group. We have a hundred and forty-one M.P.s in the parliament, out of a hundred and ninety-nine, so it\u2019s a very strong mandate. But, at the same time, I can be very honest\u2014it\u2019s a fragile majority, as well, because we have such different people with very, very different backgrounds, coming from the countryside, coming from Budapest, coming from the left, coming from the right. So to have the necessary compromises, to be able to adopt the decisions, it\u2019s just not possible. And, because of the direct contact with the people, we will have always the feedback, and they will have always the opportunity to just say, \u201cStop, we didn\u2019t buy the ticket for this movie, or for this tour.\u201d So I\u2019m quite sure that the checks and balances will be working at the society level, as well, not only at the constitutional level or a political level. And maybe that\u2019s better and more practical. I think this is the real regime change, the regime change in the minds of the people.<\/p>\n

The story of the film is the story of building this broad coalition\u2014left, right, and center. And everyone in the world, especially in the United States, is wondering if this is possible only in Hungary, or if this is possible elsewhere. I was in Budapest the night of the election, and the thing it reminded me of most was the 2020 election, when [Donald] Trump was defeated. I\u2019m the one saying this, not you, but a lot of people think of Trump as an authoritarian, in more or less the same way Viktor Orb\u00e1n was, and some are even feeling hopeless that there\u2019s any real possibility of defeating him\u2014that maybe it won\u2019t be Trump next time, maybe it will be J.\u00a0D. Vance or someone else, but still they worry that you can\u2019t defeat this Trumpist system, this rendszer<\/em>.<\/strong><\/p>\n

And then, after your election, a lot of commentators drew opposite lessons from your win. Some said that it shows that what we need to defeat Trump is to run a left-wing populist who can run to the left on economic issues, who can run against oligarchy and corruption. Others said, No, it shows that what you need is a populist who can run to the right on divisive social issues, such as immigration. Others said, No, you don\u2019t need a populist at all; you just need someone who will promise a return to the status quo, or to the international liberal order. So which of these lessons is right? Or all they all wrong?<\/strong><\/p>\n

To be very clear and strict, I want to avoid any comparison between the U.S. and Hungary, between President Trump and Prime Minister Orb\u00e1n. It\u2019s not my task to make any comparison.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m not able to tell you honestly whether it can be copied or not. I know what we have made all together, the Hungarians, the fifty thousand volunteers. It was a huge amount of work, I can tell you. So there is no real secret behind the scenes\u2014just to work, to be honest, to meet personally with the people, to look into their eyes.<\/p>\n

So that\u2019s it. It\u2019s up to you, it\u2019s up to the American people, it\u2019s up to the European people whether they would like to make any similar political shift or something like that. Maybe it was a once-in-a-lifetime story in Hungary, but, as we mentioned already, it\u2019s just the beginning of the story. So, O.K., we defeated the Orb\u00e1n regime, but now we have to show to the public whether it was the best decision. I\u2019m confident that it was, but the work is just starting, and the responsibility is really high. So please respect that I would like to avoid all the comparisons\u2014I don\u2019t know the U.S. situation in detail, and I want to avoid to intervene in any way in any foreign country\u2019s internal politics. It was the way of Orb\u00e1n to intervene into the western Balkans, or in the U.S., or in Spain, or in Slovakia. It\u2019s not the task of a Hungarian Prime Minister or party leader to intervene in any way into other countries\u2019 internal politics.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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I respect that, but, I mean, the Americans were intervening in the Hungarian election, as you know. [Shortly before the election, J.\u00a0D. Vance spent two days in Budapest campaigning for Orb\u00e1n.<\/em>] Why was that so important to them, do you think?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Read more The Redemption of \u201cVanessa,\u201d a Neglected Operatic Masterpiece<\/a><\/p>\n

You should ask them. Or Prime Minister Orb\u00e1n.\u00a0\u2666<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Andrew Marantz talks with the Hungarian Prime Minister about the rewriting of Hungary\u2019s constitution, the implications of his victory, and his struggle to lead his nation out of a period of authoritarianism.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":88,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[32],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-89","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-the-new-yorker-interview"],"yoast_head":"\nP\u00e9ter Magyar Led Hungarians out of Autocracy. 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